Post by Istor the Macedonian.......................................
He, he, he....
...........................................
Unfortunately, "Black Athena" propaganda parrots like yourself are doing
exactly the opposite - spreading your old LIES.
Spirit of Tuth
You are nothing other than a nauseous parrot.
Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods,
dialect and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World.
Macedonians named after Greek names ALL the cities they built or
renamed.
If any modern white people do what Macedonians did we will call them
Macedonians.
Whoever denies Macedonians' Greekness is ignoramus or idiot or an
imbecile SlavoSkopian propagandist.
-----
LOLZ!!
Increadibly enough, it is the very Greeks who are denying Macedonians'
Greekness. If you read any, any old greek classical text that mentiones
the people from the north, they are always classified as Barbarians, those
who do not fit into the Greek city-states arena. Even Filip the Second was
deemed to be a Barbarian (I think it was Demosten... stoklo... sorry, my
knowledge is fading away... who gave famous orations against this
Barbarian from the north, as asked Sparta, Athena and others to unite
against them).
Politics.
Today some hot heads from south Greece are calling the Greeks fron
north...Bulgarians!
Does it answer your question why Demosthenes was calling Macedonians
"barbarians"?...
As for no ancient source stating that macedonians were Greeks (sic!), please
read and educate yourself:
-----
Quotes
-Proving the fact that the Ancient Macedonians competeted in the Olympic
games and the Amphictyonies
"They say that these were the clans collected by Amphiktyon himself in the
Greek assembly... `The Macedonians managed to join and the entire Phocian
race... In my day there were thirty members: six each from Nikopolis,
Macedonia, and Thessaly...". Pausanias, Phokis VIII 2&4 (Loeb, W. Jones)
"But Alexander (I) proving himself to be an Argive, he was judged to be a
Greek; so he contended in the furlong race and ran a dead heat for the first
place". (Herodotus V, 22, 2 (Loeb, A. D. Godley) *note that Alexander I was
a Macedonian athlete at the Olympic games
"Belistiche, a woman from the coast of Macedonia, won with the pair of
foals.. at the hundred and twenty-ninth Olympics". Pausanias, Eleia VIII, 11
(Loeb, W. Jones - H. A. Ormerod);
- From the New Testament:
"Paul the Apostle, was summoned to Macedonia by a Macedonian in the form of
a vision speaking to him in Greek" (Act Apost. XVI 9,10)
"The Apostles Paul and Silas met Greek men and women in Thessaloniki and
Beroea" (Act Apost. XVII 4, 12).
- From various classical figures:
Hesiod
"And she conceived and bore to Zeus who delights in the thunderbolttwo sons,
Magnes and Macedon, rejoicing in horses, who dwell round-about Pieria and
Olympus", Hesiod, Catalogues of Women and Eoiae 3 (Loeb, H.G. Evelyn-White).
Strabo
"There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are
contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and
thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of
Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9 (Loeb, H.L. Jones)
"The Acarnanians, and the Aetolians, like many other nations, are at present
worn out, and exhausted by continual wars. The Aetolians however, in
conjunction with the Acarnanians, during a long period withstood the
Macedonians and the other Greeks" (Strabo, Geography, Book 10, Chapter 2,
23)
"After having described as much of the western parts of Europe as is
comprised within the interior and exterior seas, and surveyed all the
barbarous nations which it contains, as far as the Don and a small part of
Greece, [namely, Macedonia,]2 we propose to give an account of the remainder
of the Helladic geography." (Strabo, Geography, Book VIII 8, 1)
"but after they had intrusted to Lycurgus the formation of a political
constitution, they acquired such a superiority over the other Greeks, that
they alone obtained the sovereignty both by sea and land, and continued to
be the chiefs of the Greeks, till the Thebans, and soon afterwards the
Macedonians, deprived them of this ascendency." (Strabo, Geography, Book
VIII 8, CHAPTER V)
"And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on
the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than
now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably
Greece is held by the barbarians - Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly
by the Thracians, and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the
Thesproti, the Cassopaei, the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes -
Epeirotic tribes." (Strabo, Geography,book 7,VII,1)
Herodotus
"The Peloponnesians that were with the fleet were... the Lacedaemonians ...
the Corinthians... the Sicyonians... the Epidaurians... the Troezenians...
the people of Hermione there; all these, except the people of Hermione, were
of Dorian and Macedonian stock and had last come from Erineus and Pindus and
the Dryopian region". Herodotus VIII, 43 (Loeb. A.D. Godley).
"For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the land of Phthiotis, then
in the time of Dorus son of Helen the country called Histiaean, under Ossa
and Olympus; driven by the Cadmeans from this Histiaean country it settled
about Pindus in the parts called Macedonian; thence again it migrated to
Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into Peloponnesus, where it took the
name of Dorian". Herodotus I, 56, 3 (Loeb, A.D. Godley).
"Tell your king who sent you how his Greek viceroy of Macedonia has received
you hospitably... " Herodotus V, 20, 4 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say,
I myself chance to know" Herodotus V, 22, 1 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
"But Alexander proving himself to be an Argive, he was judged to be a Greek.
So he contended in the furlong race and an a dead heat for the first place".
Herodotus V 22,2 - Loeb. A. d. Godley).
The speech of Alexander I, when he was admitted to the Olympic games:
"Men of Athens...
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have
come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not
willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery....
If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom;
consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Greek cause, to acquaint
you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the
barbarians.
I am Alexander of Macedon." Herodotus IX, 45, 2 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
Polybius
"This is a sworn treaty made between us, Hannibal.. and Xenophanes the
Athenian... in the presence of all the gods who possess Macedonia and the
rest of Greece". The Histories of Polybius, VII, 9, 4 (Loeb, W. R. Paton)
"How highly should we honour the Macedonians, who for the greater part of
their lives never cease from fighting with the barbarians for the sake of
the security of Greece? For who is not aware that Greece would have
constantly stood in the greater danger, had we not been fenced by the
Macedonians and the honorable ambition of their kings?" The Histories of
Polybius, IX, 35, 2 (Loeb, W.R. Paton)
Isocrates
"... all men will be grateful to you: the Hellenes for your kindness to them
and the rest of the nations, if by your hands they are delivered from
barbaric despotism and are brought under the protection of Hellas".
Isocrates, To Philip, 154 (Loeb, G. Norlin)
"It is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom,
to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race".
Isocrates, To Philip, 127 (Loeb, G. Norlin)
"Argos is the land of your fathers". Isocrates, To Philip, XII, 32 (Loeb, G.
Norlin),
Titus Livius
"Aetolians, Acarnanians, Macedonians, men of the same language" T. Livius
XXXI, 29, 15 (Loeb, E.T. Sage) ,
Thucydides
"Three brothers of the lineage of Temenus came as banished men from Argos to
Illyria, Gauanes and Aeropos and Perdiccas". Herodotus VIII, 137, l (Loeb,
A.P. Godley)
"The country by the sea which is now called Macedonia... Alexander, the
father of Perdiccas, and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from
Argos" Thucydides 99,3 (Loeb, C F Smith)
Arrian
"He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in
the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: Alexander son of
Philip and the Greeks, except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from
the barbarians dwelling in Asia", Arrian I, 16, 7 (Loeb, P. A. Brunt)
Alexander's letter to Darius, responding to truce plea:
"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Greece and did us great
harm, though we had done them no prior injury;... I have been appointed
hegemon of the Greeks... "Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II, 14, 4 (Loeb, P.
A. Brunt)
Plutarch
"Yet through Alexander Bactria and the Caucasus learned to revere the gods
of Greeks... Alexander established more than seventy cities among savage
tribes, and sowed all Asia with Grecian magistracies. Egypt would not have
its Alexandria, nor Mesopotamia its Seleucia, nor Sogdiana its Prophthasia,
nor India its Bucephalia, no the Caucasus a Greek city for by the founding
of cities in these places savagery was extinguished and the worse element,
gaining familiarity with the better, changed under its influence"
(Plutarch's Moralia, Loeb, F.C. Babbitt)
"If it were not my purpose to combine foreign things with things Greek, to
traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of
land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to
disseminate and shower the blessings of Greek justice and peace over every
nation, I should not content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but
I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes" (Plutarch's Moralia, Loeb, F.C
Babbitt)
----------------
More detailed lecture for people interested to see the truth.
And not only from Greek sources but also Roman and Jewish...
Happy reading!
----------------
- Letter from Jewish organisation outlining Jewish quotes from different
eras
To the
Central Boards of the
Jewish Communities of Europe
E.J.C.
W.J.C.
Bnei Berit International
Executive Council
of Australian Jewry
American Jewish Committee
Sirs,
as you cetrainly know after the division of the former Democracy of
Yugoslavia to a series of independent small states it has been created the
question of the naming of the State of Scopia that is asking to be
recognized under the name of Macedonia
Greece does not object to the recognition of this State, that it wants to
help materially in every way, but it cannot accept the name Macedonia which
since antiquity is related to a plainly Greek region.
Jewish religion and philology consitute the unquestionable witnesses of the
ancient ethnoloigical character of Macedonians as Greeks.
Noticeably the prophers Daniel (chap.8, 1-22 chap.2 para.39 4-13, 26-28, 31,
38 chap. 7, 2-7) Isiaiah chap. 19, 20 chap. 19,23 Joel chap.3 v.6, Jeremy,
Habacoum chap.2, v.5 and the books of the Maccabees (1st book chap. 1, v.1 &
10 chap. 6 v.2, II 8, 20 III 8) include explicit elements for the greek
character of Macedonia.
These very same notions have been supported by the contemporary professors
Yigal Yadin (archaiologist, Jerusalem University), George Box (professor of
Old Testament, London University), Yacov Messorer (numismatist of the
Jerusalem Museum), Erich Graetz (historian Breslow University)
Besides these the Talmoud in relating the friendly meeting between Alexander
the Great and the High Priest Simon the Just, on the former's entry into
Jerusalem in teh year 330 BC., refers to him as Alexander HaMocdon Meleh
Yavan - Alexander the Macedonian, King of Greece. Similar references can be
found in Talmoud in teh books "Seder Hadorot" as well as "Megilat Taanit".
Moreover Jewish historians like
-Flavius Josephus makes reference to the Greeks of Macedonia and to Greece
or Macedonia, sometimes using the one term and sometimes the other, clearly
regarding the Macedonians as Greeks and the Greeks as Macedonians
(Antiquities of the Jews book 11 para.337, 109, 148, 286, 184 book 8
para.61, 95 100, 154, 312 book 10 para.273 book 12 para.322 & 414 where he
includes these Macedonina kings together with Antiochus the Great in teh
conquest if the Greek world by the Romans since he regards Macedonia as a
Greek province).
-Philo of Alexandria refers to the Macedonian King Alexander whom he
indentifies with the Greeks.
-Maimonides according to whom "thanks to the conquest of Judea by the
Greek-Macedonian dynasty the greek learning was transplanted there and
contributed to making Hellenism and Judaism acquainted with one another and
to the creation of a new philosophical and religious synthesis which opened
up new paths and gave new directions to human civilisation".
-Numerous well known rabbis.
In conclusion we mark Henry's Kissinger characteristic statement at the
Management of Europe meeting (Paris, June 1992) "I believe that Greece is
right to have objections and I agree with Athens. the reason is that I know
history, which is not the case most of the others, including most of the
Governement and governement officials in Washington. The strength of the
side of Greece is its history".
We lined up all the above data so as to prove you the legitimacy of the
Greek aspects as far as it concerns the Greek character of Macedonia and to
ask you the full support of these greek postitions to the appropriate
personalities of your country.
Sincerely yours
The President --- The Gen. Secretary
Nissim Mais
-------------------------------------------------------
-From Arrian's 'The Campaigns of Alexander'. A speech of Alexander:
I observe, my fellow Hellenes, that when I would lead you on a new venture
you no longer follow me with your old spirit. I have asked you to meet me
that we may come to a decision together: are we, upon my advice, to go
forward, or, upon yours, to turn back?
If you have any complaint to make about the results of your efforts
hitherto, or about myself as your commander, there is no more to say. But
let me remind you: through your courage and endurance you have gained
possession of Ionia, the Hellespont, both Phrygias, Cappadocia, Paphlagonia,
Lydia, Caria, Lycia, Pamphylia, Phoenicia, and Egypt; the Greek part of
Libya is now yours, together with much of Arabia, lowland Syria,
Mesopotamia, Babylon, and Susia; Persia and Media with all the territories
either formerly controlled by them or not are in your hands; you have made
yourselves masters of the lands beyond the Caspian Gates, beyond the
Caucasus, beyond the Tanais, of Bactria, Hyrcania, and the Hyrcanian sea; we
have driven the Scythians back into the desert; and Indus and Hydaspes,
Acesines and Hydraotes flow now through country which is ours. With all that
accomplished, why do you hesitate to extend the power of
Greece--yourpower--to the Hyphasis and the tribes on the other side ? Are
you afraid that a few natives who may still be left will offer opposition?
Come, come! These natives either surrender without a blow or are caught on
the run--or leave their country undefended for your taking; and when we take
it, we make a present of it to those who have joined us of their own free
will and fight on our side.
For a man who is a man, work, in my belief, if it is directed to noble ends,
has no object beyond itself; none the less, if any of you wish to know what
limit may be set to this particular camapaign, let me tell you that the area
of country still ahead of us, from here to the Ganges and the Eastern ocean,
is comparatively small. You will undoubtedly find that this ocean is
connected with the Hyrcanian Sea, for the great Stream of Ocean encircles
the earth. Moreover I shall prove to you, my friends, that the Indian and
Persian Gulfs and the Hyrcanian Sea are all three connected and continuous.
Our ships will sail round from the Persian Gulf to Libya as far as the
Pillars of Hercules, whence all Libya to the eastward will soon be ours, and
all Asia too, and to this empire there will be no boundaries but what God
Himself has made for the whole world.
But if you turn back now, there will remain unconquered many warlike peoples
between the Hyphasis and the Eastern Ocean, and many more to the northward
and the Hyrcanian Sea, with the Scythians, too, not far away; so that if we
withdraw now there is a danger that the territory which we do not yet
securely hold may be stirred to revolt by some nation or other we have not
yet forced into submission. Should that happen, all that we have done and
suffered will have proved fruitless--or we shall be faced with the task of
doing it over again from the beginning. Gentlemen of Macedon, and you, my
friends and allies, this must not be. Stand firm; for well you know that
hardship and danger are the price of glory, and that sweet is the savour of
a life of courage and of deathless renown beyond the grave.
Are you not aware that if Heracles, my ancestor, had gone no further than
Tiryns or Argos--or even than the Peloponnese or Thebes--he could never have
won the glory which changed him from a man into a god, actual or apparent?
Even Dionysus, who is a god indeed, in a sense beyond what is applicable to
Heracles, faced not a few laborious tasks; yet we have done more: we have
passed beyond Nysa and we have taken the rock of Aornos which Heracles
himself could not take. Come, then; add the rest of Asia to what you already
possess--a small addition to the great sum of your conquests. What great or
noble work could we ourselves have achieved had we thought it enough, living
at ease in Macedon, merely to guard our homes, accepting no burden beyond
checking the encroachment of the Thracians on our borders, or the Illyrians
and Triballians, or perhaps such Greeks as might prove a menace to our
comfort ?
I could not have blamed you for being the first to lose heart if I, your
commander, had not shared in your exhausting marches and your perilous
campaigns; it would have been natural enough if you had done all the work
merely for others to reap the reward. But it is not so. You and I,
gentlemen, have shared the labour and shared the danger, and the rewards are
for us all. The conquered territory belongs to you; from your ranks the
governors of it are chosen; already the greater part of its treasure passes
into your hands, and when all Asia is overrun, then indeed I will go further
than the mere satisfaction of our ambitions: the utmost hopes of riches or
power which each one of you cherishes will be far surpassed, and whoever
wishes to return home will be allowed to go, either with me or without me. I
will make those who stay the envy of those who return
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Thessaloniki was bulwark of the Greeks ever since the third century AD"
Written in a guide to Thessaloniki by German archaeologists and historians
for the occupying forces of 1941-45
"in the fourteenth century, on the eve of its ultimate destruction by the
Turks, Greece concentrated its intellectual activity in Thessaloniki to
demonstrate its last splendid blaze"
(E. Vassiliev, The History of the Byzantine Empire, p. 863)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander's address to his troops before the Battle of Issus (333 BC)
Alexander now sent for his infantry and cavalry commanders and all officers
in charge of allied troops and appealed to them jar confidence and courage
in the coming fight:
'that already danger has often threatened you and you have looked it
triumphantly in the face; this time the struggle will be between a
victorious army and an enemy already once vanquished. God himself moreover
by suggesting to Darius to leave the open ground and cram his great army
into a confined space, has taken charge of operations in our behalf: We
ourselves shall have room enough to deploy our infantry, while they, no
match for us either in bodily strength or resolution, will find their
superior numbers of no avail. Our enemies are Medes and Persians, men who
for centuries have lived soft and luxurious lives; we of Macedon for
generations past have trained in the hard school of danger and war Above
all, we are free men, and they are slaves. There are Greek troops, to be
sure, in Persian service - but how different is their cause from Ours! They
will be fighting for pay - and not much of it at that; we, on the contrary
shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign
troops - Thracians, Paeonions, Illyrians, Agrianes - they are the best and
stoutest soldiers in Europe, and they will find as their opponents the
slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia. And what, finally, of the two
men in supreme command? You have Alexander the Darius!..."
Arrian, "Anabasis of Alexander", (Book 2 . 7).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inscriptions which recorded when, during Greco-Persian wars, when the
Persian General Mardonius conquored Macedonia, showed the Persians referring
to Macedonians as Greeks
"Mardonius had been very successful. There are indications that his army
reached the Danube, because an Old Persian inscription was discovered near
Kolmer in Rumania. (The possibility that the inscription was brought to
Rumania from its original site, however, can not be ruled out.) The conquest
of Macedonia was important, as it was a fine base for further conquests in
Europe and posessed gold mines. Darius was fully entitled to claim in his
inscription at Naqs-i Rustam that he had conquered the Yauna takabara, the
'Greeks with sun hats', a reference to the Macedonian headwear."
http://www.livius.org/man-md/mardonius/mardonius.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372&referrerid=15
Quotes from ancient authors and Byzantine authors from the middle ages
Aeschines
Think you not that Themistocles and those who died at Marathon and at
Plataea, and the very sepulchres of your fathers, will groan aloud, if the
man (Demosthenes) who admits that he has negotiated with the barbarians
(Persians) against the Greeks (Macedonians) shall receive a crown?
Against Ctesiphon, 3.259
Aelian
From the Varia Historia
When Hephaestion died at Ecbatana (in 324) Alexander placed his weapons upon
the funeral pyre, with gold and silver for the dead man, and a robe-which
last, among the Persians is a symbol of great honor. He shore off his own
hair, as in Homeric grief, and behaved like the Achilles of Homer. Indeed he
acted more violently and passionately than the latter, for he caused the
towers and strongholds of Ecbatana to be demolished all round. As long as he
only dedicated his own hair, he was behaving, I think, like a Greek; but
when he laid hands on the very walls, Alexander was already showing his
grief in foreign fashion. Even in his clothing he departed from ordinary
custom, and gave himself up to his mood, his love, and his tears."
The cutting of the hair to represent grief being a Homeric tradition.
VII, 8.
"Alexander of Macedon, son of Philip, is also reported to have crushed the
many myriads of barbarians on the sixth of the month; that was when
Alexander defeated Darius."
2.24
"A law from Stagira which is utterly Greek says "Do not claim wht you did
not put on deposit"
Stagira of course being the home of Aristotle, another famous Macedonian.
3.44 (46)
"Amyntas of Macedon was defeated by his barbarian neighbours and lost his
kingdom. He was thinking of abandoning entirely his territories, happy to
escape with his own safety. While he was in this mood someoned reported to
him Ellopides' remark. He occupied a small area, gathered a few soldiers and
recovered his kingdom."
4.8 (8)
"Hieron of Syracuse, they say, was a philhellene with a great enthusiasm for
culture"
For those who claim that to be a philhellene implies an inherent
'non-Greekness'.
9
"Perdiccas the Macedonian who accompanied Alexander on his expedition was
apparently so courageous that he once went alone into a cave where a lioness
had her lair. He did not catch the lioness, but he emerged carrying her
cubs. Perdiccas won admiration for this feat. Not only Greeks, but
barbarians as well, are convinced that the lioness is an animal of great
bravery and very difficult to contend with."
The structure of Aelian's narrative is clear. Greeks on one hand, and then
non-Greeks.
12.37(39)
Aeneas Tacticus
"In giving out watchwords it is needful to provide, if the army happen to be
a mixture from different cities or tribes, that the word shall not be given
out in an ambiguous way, in case one concept may have two different
names.and they cause harm if one issues a password in dialect instead of in
language common to all. One should not, then, issue such words to mixed
mercenaries, nor to the allies of different tribes."
XXIV, Of Watchwords
"The confusions and terrors that suddenly arise in a city or a camp, by
night or by day, are by some called panics-the word is a Peloponnesian,
particularly an Arcadian one."
XXVII, Of Panics
More examples of regional dialects, or ways of speaking. E.g.
Peloponnistiki...
Aphrahat/Aphraates (Known as the Persian Bishop)
5. Again the ram was lifted up and exalted, and pushed with its horns
towards the west, and towards the north, and towards the south, and humbled
many beasts. And they could not stand before him, until the he-goat came
from the west and smote the ram and broke his horns and humbled the ram
completely. But the ram was the King of Media and Persia, that is, Darius;
and the he-goat was Alexander, the son of Philip, the Macedonian. For Daniel
saw the ram when he was in the East before the gate of Shushan the fortress
that is in the province of Elam, upon the river Ulai. And he was pushing
towards the West and
towards the North and towards the South. And none of the beasts could stand
before him.(1) And the he-goat of the goats came up from the region of the
Greeks, and exalted himself against the ram, And he smote him and broke both
his horns, the greater and the lesser. And why did he say that he broke both
his horns? Clearly because he humbled both the kingdoms which he ruled; the
lesser, that of the Medes, and the greater, that of the Persians. But when
Alexander the Greek came, he slew Darius, King of Media and Persia. For thus
the angel said to Daniel, when he was explaining the vision to him:--The ram
that thou sawest was the King of Media and Persia, and the he-goat the King
of
the Greeks. (2) Now, from the time that the two horns of the ram were
broken, until this time, there have been six hundred and forty-eight
years.(8)
18. And concerning the third beast he said that it was like a leopard,
and it had four birds' wings on its back and that beast had four heads. Now
this third beast was Alexander the Macedonian. For he was strong as a
leopard. And as for the four wings and the four heads that the beast had,
that was because he gave the kingdom to his four friends to govern after
him, when he had come and slain Darius and reigned in his stead.
19. And of the fourth beast he said that it was exceedingly terrible and
strong and mighty, devouring and crushing and trampling with its feet
anything that remained. It is the kingdom of the children of Esau.(4)
Because after that Alexander the Macedonian became king, the kingdom of the
Greeks was founded, since Alexander also was one of them, even of the
Greeks. But the vision of the third beast was fulfilled in him, since the
third and the fourth were one. Now Alexander reigned for twelve years. And
the kings of the Greeks
arose after Alexander, being seventeen kings, and their years were two
hundred and sixty-nine years from Seleucus Nicanor to Ptolemy. And the
Caesars were from Augustus to Philip Caesar, seventeen kings. And their 359
years are two hundred and ninety-three years;(1) and eighteen years of
Severus.
Demonstrations V-Of Wars
Athenaeus:
Deipnosophists, Book XIII
Concerning the professional "companions" Philetaerus says this in The
Huntress: "No wonder there is a shrine to the Companion everywhere, but
nowhere in all Greece is there one to the Wife." But I know also of a
festival, the Hetairideia, celebrated in Magnesia, not in honour of these
"companions" (hetaerae), but for a different reason, which is mentioned by
Hegesander in his Commentaries, writing thus: "The Magnesians celebrate the
festival of the Hetairideia. The record that Jason the son of Aeson, after
gathering the Argonauts together, was the first to sacrifice to Zeus
Hetaireios and that he called the festival Hetairideia. And the kings of
Macedonia also celebrate with sacrifices the Hetairideia."
The Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as other Greeks.
But when, on again looking, one discovers that it is a monument to
Pythionice the courtesan, what must one be led to expect?" Again,
Theopompus, when denouncing in his Letter to Alexander the licentiousness of
Harpalus, says: "Consider and learn clearly from our agents in Babylon how
he ordered the funeral of Pythionice when she died. She, to be sure, was a
slave of the flute-girl Bacchis, who in turn was a slave of the Thracian
woman Sinope, who had transferred her practice of harlotry from Aegina to
Athens; hence Pythionice was not only triply a slave, but also triply a
harlot. Now, with the sum of more than two hundred talents he erected two
monuments to her; the thing that surprised everyone is this, that whereas
for the men who died in Cilicia defending your kingdom and the liberty of
Greece neither he nor anyone else among the officials has as yet erected a
proper tomb, for the courtesan Pythionice the monument at Athens and the
other in Babylon have already stood completed a long time. Here was a woman
who, as everybody knew, had been shared by all who desired her at the same
price for all, and yet for this woman the man who says he is your friend has
set up a shrine and a sacred enclosure and has called the temple and the
altar by the name of Aphrodite Pythionice, by one and the same act showing
his contempt for the vengeance of the gods and endeavouring to heap insult
on the offices you bestow."
I note that from a contemporary view (Theopompus), Alexander was liberating
the Greeks, well after Guagemala.
Caesar
"Caesar judged that he must drop everything else and pursue Pompey where he
had betaken himself after his flight, so that he should not be able to
gather more forces and renew the war; and he advanced daily as far as he
could go with the cavalry and ordered a legion to follow by shorter stages.
An edict had been published in Pompey's name that all the younger men in the
province (Macedonia), both Greeks and Roman citizens, should assemble to
take an oath. But whether Pompey had published this to divert suspicion, so
as to keep his intention of further flight secret as long as possible, or
whether he was attempting to hold Macedonia with fresh levies, if no one
stopped him, could not be gauged."
Caesar has just defeated Pompey in Thessaly and Pompey has fled north to
Macedon. While in Macedon, Pompey calls a draft of all Romans and Greeks in
the Roman province of Macedonia, that is the native Greek Macedonians and
any potential Roman soldiers. As events later proved, this was a feint to
draw Caesar into Macedonia while Pompey fled to Asia Minor.
The Civil War, 111.102.3
Constantine Poryphorgenitus
De Administrando Imperio
"The territory possessed by these Romani used to extend as far as the river
Danube, and once on a time, being minded to cross the river and discover who
dwelt beyond the river, they crossed it and came upon unarmed Slavonic
nations, who were also called Avars.
.and the Slavs on the far side of the river, who were also called Avars,."
A counter to yet another ludricous claim of the inhabitants of FYROM, namely
that the Macedonians were 'Slavs', especially as all the records clearly
indicate that the Slavs came from beyond the Danube hundreds of years after
the collapse of the Macedonian kingdom.
".and, what is more, the nations of those parts, the Croats and Serbs and
Zachlumites, Terbuniotes and Kanalites and Diocletians and the Pagani, shook
off the reins of the empire of the Romans and became self-governing and
independent, subject to none. Princes, as they say, these nations had none,
but only 'zupans', elders, as is the rule in the other Slavonic regions."
No note of course of 'Macedonian Slavs'.
30.
"The Slavs of the province of Peloponessus revolted in the days of the
emperor Theophilus and his son Michael, and became independent, and
plundered and enslaved and pillaged and burnt and stole. And in the reign of
Michael, the son of Theophilus, the protospatharius Theoctistus, surnamed
Bryennius, was sent as military governor to the province of Peloponnesus
with a great power and force, vis., of Thracians and Macedonians and the
rest of the western provinces, to war upon and subdue them. He subdued and
mastered all the Slavs and other insubordinates of the province of
Peloponnesus.."
Does anyone else find it as ironic as I do that in our current debate this
illustration of the Macedonians being used to supress the Slavs?
Quintus Curtius Rufus
"They recalled that at the start of his reign Darius had issued orders for
the shape of the scabbard of the Persian scimitar to be altered to the shape
used by the Greeks, and that the Chaldeans had immediately interpreted this
as meaning that rule over the Persians would pass to those people whose arms
Darius had copied."
3.3
"For his part Alexander responded much like this: 'His majesty Alexander to
Darius: Greetings. The Darius whose name you have assumed wrought much
destruction upon the Greek inhabitants of the Hellespontine coast and upon
the Greek colonies of Ionia, and the crossed the sea with a mighty army,
bringing the war to Macedonia and Greece. On another occasion Xerxes, a
member of the same family, came with his savage barbarian troops, and even
when beaten in a naval engagement he still left Mardonius in Greece so that
he could destroy our cities and burn our fields though absent himself."
4.1
"Mutiny was but a step away when, unperturbed by all this, Alexander
summoned a full meeting of his generals and officers in his tent and ordered
the Egyptian seers to give their opinion. They were well aware that the
annual cycle follows a pattern of changes, that the moon is eclipsed when it
passes behind the earth or is blocked by the sun, but they did not give this
explanation, which they themselves knew, to the common soldiers. Instead,
they declared that the sun represented the Greeks and the moon the Persians,
and that an eclipse of the moon predicted disaster and slaughter for those
nations."
4.10
"Alexander called a meeting of his generals the next day. He told them that
no city was more hateful to the Greeks than Persepolis, the capital of the
old kings of Persia, the city from which troops without number had poured
forth, from which first Darius and then Xerxes had waged an unholy war on
Europe. To appease the spirits of their forefathers they should wipe it out,
he said."
5.6
"As for Alexander, it is generally agreed that, when sleep had brought him
back to his senses after his drunken bout, he regretted his actions and said
that the Persians would have suffered a more grievous punishment at the
hands of the Greeks had they been forced to see him on Xerxes' throne and in
his palace."
5.8
"In pursuit of Bessus the Macedonians had arrived at a small town inhabited
by the Branchidae who, on the orders of Xerxes, when he was returning from
Greece, had emigrated from Miletus and settled in this spot. This was
necessary because, to please Xerxes, they had violated the temple called the
Didymeon. The culture of their forebears had not yet disappeared thought
they were now bilingual and the foreign tongue was gradually eroding their
own. So it was with great joy that they welcomed Alexander, to whom they
surrendered themselves and their city. Alexander called a meeting of the
Milesians in his force, for the Milesians bore a long-standing grudge
against the Branchidae as a clan. Since they were the people betrayed by the
Branchidae, Alexander let them decide freely on their case, asking if they
preferred to remember their injury or their common origins. But when there
was a difference of opinion over this, he declared that he would himself
consider the best course of action.
When the Branchidae met him the next day, he told them to accompany him. On
reaching the city, he himself entered through the gate with a unit of
light-armed troops. The phalanx had been ordered to surround the city walls
and, when the signal was given, to sack this city which provided refuge for
traitors, killing the inhabitants to a man. The Branchidae, who were
unarmed, were butchered throughout the city, and neither community of
language nor the olive-branches and entreaties of the suppliants could curb
the savagery. Finally the Macedonians dug down to the foundations of the
city walls in order to demolish them and leave not a single trace of the
city."
As the Branchidae were Greeks removed from Ionia, it seems odd that the
Macedonians would share the same language with them were they non-Greeks.
"The gist of the passage was that the Greeks had established a bad practice
in inscribing their trophies with only their kings' names, for the kings'
were thus appropriating to themselves glory that was won by the blood of
others."
On the Cleitus affair, where Cleitus points out it is the army that won the
victories, not Alexander personally.
8.1
"He did not want her tainting the character and civilized temperament of the
Greeks with this example of barbarian lawlessness."
Alexander's concern for the morality of his troops is perhaps somewhat
hypocritical, but relevant nontheless.
Oddly enough, Q.C. Rufus is a favourite of Skoian propagandists. Go figure.
Clement of Alexandria
CHAPTER XXII -- ON THE GREEK TRANSLATION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.
So much for the details respecting dates, as stated variously by many, and
as set down by us.
It is said that the Scriptures both of the law and of the prophets were
translated from the dialect of the Hebrews into the Greek language in the
reign of Ptolemy the son of Lagos, or, according to others, of Ptolemy
surnamed Philadelphus; Demetrius Phalereus bringing to this task the
greatest earnestness, and employing painstaking accuracy on the materials
for the translation. For the Macedonians being still in possession of Asia,
and the king being ambitious of adorning the library he had at Alexandria
with all writings, desired the people of Jerusalem to translate the
prophecies they possessed into the Greek dialect. And they being the
subjects of the Macedonians, selected from those of highest character among
them seventy elders, versed in the Scriptures, and skilled in the Greek
dialect, and sent them to him with the divine books. And each having
severally translated each prophetic book, and all the translations being
compared together, they agreed both in meaning and expression. For it was
the counsel of God carried out for the benefit of Grecian ears. It was not
alien to the inspiration of God, who gave the prophecy, also to produce the
translation, and make it as it were Greek prophecy.
Cosmas Indicopleustes (The Geographer)
Book III
Even in Taprobane, on an island in Further India, where the Indian sea is,
there is a Church of Christians, with clergy and a body of believers, but I
know not whether there be any Christians in the parts beyond it. In the
country called Male, where the pepper grows, there is also a church, and at
another place called Calliana there is moreover a bishop, who is appointed
from Persia. In the island, again, called the Island of Dioscorides, which
is situated in the same Indian sea, and where the inhabitants speak Greek,
having been originally colonists sent thither by the Ptolemies who succeeded
Alexander the Macedonian, there are clergy who receive their ordination in
Persia, and are sent on to the island, and there is also a multitude of
Christians. I sailed along the coast of this island, but did not land upon
it. I met, however, with some of its Greek-speaking people who had come over
into Ethiopia. And so likewise among the Bactrians and Huns and Persians,
and the rest of the Indians, Persarmenians, and Medes and Elamites, and
throughout the whole land of Persia there is no limit to the number of
churches with bishops and very large communities of Christian people, as
well as many martyrs, and monks also living as hermits. So too in Ethiopia
and Axom, and in all the country about it; among the people of Happy
Arabia----who are now called Homerites----through all Arabia and Palestine,
Phoenicia, and all Syria and Antioch as far as Mesopotamia; among the
Nubians and the Garamantes, in Egypt, Libya, Pentapolis, Africa and
Mauretania, as far as southern Gadeira,there are everywhere churches of the
Christians, and bishops, martyrs, monks and recluses, where the Gospel of
Christ is proclaimed. So likewise again in Cilicia, Asia, Cappadocia, Lazica
and Pontus, and in the northern countries occupied by the Scythians,
Hyrcanians, Heruli, Bulgarians, Greeks and Illyrians, Dalmatians, Goths,
Spaniards, Romans, Franks, and other nations, as far as Gadeira on the ocean
towards the northern parts, there are believers and preachers of the Gospel
confessing the resurrection from the dead; and so we see the prophecies
being fulfilled over the whole world.
Not only the Greek language in India due to the Macedonians, but no mention
of a seperate 'Macedonian nation' where the Bulgarians are mentioned.
Book XI
And yet He has not left them without a witness to Himself, that He was
working for their good and taking thought for it beforehand, for He
manifested to them some tokens of His goodness, some four hundred years or
more before the coming of Christ, in the days of Alexander the Macedonian,
long after the Trojan war, when the Greeks were still flourishing. Let me
give an instance of this: When Alexander the Macedonian was passing by
Jerusalem in prosecution of his war against Darius, the High Priest of the
Jews, arrayed in the robes of his office, came forth to meet him, whereupon
Alexander dismounted from his horse and in a very kindly manner embraced
him. And when his attendants reproached him for so doing and said: Why hast
thou done so? he excused himself and said: When I set out at first from
Macedonia, a man dressed in this style was seen by me in a dream who said to
me: Go forth and conquer. The result was that the King himself offered
sacrifices to God and bestowed many gifts on the Temple, and accorded many
privileges to the country of the Jews.In subsequent times Ptolemy surnamed
Philadelphus, after having made careful inquiry from Tryphon the Phalerean
about the Jewish books, and learned the truth concerning them, earnestly
solicited them from the High Priest Eleazar, to whom as well as to the
Temple he sent many presents. These books he received along with seventy
elderly men, who translated them from the Hebrew into the Greek tongue, and
he deposited them on the shelves of his own library. This also was a work of
divine providence, that the translation had been prepared before the coming
of Christ, lest, if it were done afterwards in the days of the Apostles, it
would be exposed to general suspicion, as if they had interpreted what had
been said of old by the prophets both concerning Christ and the calling of
the Gentiles in a way to suit their own predilections.
Demosthenes, Speeches 11-20, the Letter of Philip
"Not content with this, you have shown your contempt for right and your
hostility to me by actually sending an embassy to urge the king of Persia to
declare war on me. This is the most amazing exploit of all; for, before the
king reduced Egypt and Phoenicia, you passed a decree calling on me to make
common cause with the rest of the Greeks against him, in case he attempted
to interfere with us; [7] and today you have such a superabundance of hatred
for me that you negotiate with him for a defensive alliance. Yet I am given
to understand that your fathers of old punished the sons of Pisistratus for
inviting the Persians to invade Greece. You are not ashamed to do what you
have always made a matter of indictment against your tyrants."
"But the crowning agsurdity, I think, is that , though I sent ambassadors
from all my allies to attend as witnesses, and was willing to come to a just
agreement with you in the interests of the Greek world..
While Demosthenes is of course another favourite of the 'other side', it
seems like the great Philip II himself was in no doubt of his 'Greekness'.
Dionysius of Halicarnasus:
Having agreed through heralds upon the time when they would join in battle,
they descended from their camps and took up their positions as follows: King
Pyrrhus gave the Macedonian phalanx the first place on the right wing and
placed next to it the Italiot mercenaries from Tarentum; then the troops
from Ambracia and after them the phalanx of Tarentines equipped with white
shields, forced by the allied force of Bruttians and Lucanians; in the
middle of the battle-line he stationed the Thesprotians and Chaonians; next
to them the mercenaries of the Aetolians, Acarnanians and Athamanians, and
finally the Samnites, who constituted the left wing. Of the horse, he
stationed the Samnite, Thessalian and Bruttian squadrons and the Tarentine
mercenary force upon the right wing, and the Ambraciot, Lucanian and
Tarentine squadrons and the Greek mercenaries, consisting of Acarnanians,
Aetolians, Macedonians and Athamanians, on the left. The light-armed troops
and the elephants he divided into two groups and placed them behind both
wings, at a reasonable distance, in a position slightly elevated above the
plain. He himself, surrounded by the royal agema, as it was called, of
picked horsemen, about two thousand in number, was outs the battle-line, so
as to aid promptly any of his troops in turn that might be hard pressed.
Eusebius:
EUSEBIUS PAMPHILUS OF CAESAREA, THE LIFE OF THE BLESSED EMPEROR CONSTANTINE
BOOK I. CHAPTER VII: Comparison with Cyrus, King of the Persians and with
Alexander of Macedon.
Ancient history describes Cyrus, king of the Persians, as by far the most
illustrious of all kings up to his time. And yet if we regard the end of his
days, we find it but little corresponded with his past prosperity, since he
met with an inglorious and dishonorable death at the hands of a woman.
Again, the sons of Greece celebrate Alexander the Macedonian as the
conqueror of many and diverse nations; yet we find that he was removed by an
early death, before he had reached maturity, being carried off by the
effects of revelry and drunkenness. His whole life embraced but the space of
thirty-two years, and his reign extended to no more than a third part of
that period. Unsparing as the thunderbolt, he advanced through streams of
blood and reduced entire nations and cities, young and old, to utter
slavery. But when he had scarcely arrived at the maturity of life, and was
lamenting the loss of youthful pleasures, death fell upon him with terrible
stroke, and, that he might not longer outrage the human race, cut him off in
a foreign and hostile land, childless, without successor, and homeless. His
kingdom too was instantly dismembered, each of his officers taking away and
appropriating a portion for himself. And yet this man is extolled for such
deeds as these.
Odd, for the sons of Greece to be celebrating their 'conqueror'?
The kings of the Macedonians
The Chronicle
The end of the Assyrian empire, after the death of Sardanapallus the last
king of the Assyrians, was followed by the Macedonian age.
Before the first Olympiad, Caranus was moved by ambition to collect forces
from the Argives and from the rest of the Peloponnese, in order to lead an
army into the territory of the Macedonians. At that time the king of the
Orestae was at war with his neighbours, the Eordaei, and he called on
Caranus to come to his aid, promising to give him half of his territory in
return, if the Orestae were successful. The king kept his promise, and
Caranus took possession of the territory; he reigned there for 30 years,
until he died in old age.
He was succeeded by his son Coenus, who was king for 28 years.
After him, Tyrimias reigned for 43 years.
Perdiccas for 42 years. He wanted to expand his kingdom; so he sent [a
mission] to Delphi.
A little further on, [Diodorus] says:
Perdiccas reigned for 48 years, and left his kingdom to Argaeus, who reigned
for 31 years.
The next king was Philippus, who reigned for 33 years.
Aeropus for 20 years.
Alcetas for 18 years.
Amyntas for 49 years.
He was followed by Alexander, who reigned for 44 years.
Then Perdiccas was king for 22 years.
Archelaus for 17 years.
Aeropus for 6 years.
Then Pausanias was king for one year.
Ptolemaeus for 3 years.
Perdiccas for 5 years.
Philippus for 24 years.
Alexander, [who] fought against the Persians, for more than 12 years.
In this way the most reliable historians trace the ancestry of the
Macedonian kings back to Heracles. From Caranus, who was the first to rule
all the Macedonians, until Alexander, who conquered Asia, there were 24
kings who reigned for a total of 453 years.
[p229] The individual [kings] are as follows:
1. Caranus reigned for 30 years
2. Coenus - for 28 years
3. Tyrimias - for 43 years
4. Perdiccas - for 48 years
5. Argaeus - for 38 years
6. Philippus - for 33 years
7. Aeropus - for 20 years
8. Alcetas - for 18 years. In his time, Cyrus was king of the Persians.
9. Amyntas - for 42 years
10. Alexander - for 44 years
11. Perdiccas - for 23 years
12. Archelaus - for 24 years
13. Orestes - for 3 years
14. Archelaus - for 4 years
15. Amyntas - for one year
16. Pausanias - for one year
17. Amyntas - for 6 years
18. Argaeus - for 2 years
19. Amyntas - for 18 years
20. Alexander - for one year
21. Ptolemaeus of Alorus - for 3 years
22. Perdiccas - for 6 years
23. Philippus - for 27 years
24. Alexander the son of Philippus - for 12 years
Isidore of Seville
Etymologies
"Greece has seven provinces, Dalmatia being the first on the western side,
then Epirus, Hellas, Thessaly, Macedonia and finally Achaea and the two
provinces of the sea, Crete and the Cyclades." (22)
4.7 Graecia a Graeco rege vocata, qui cunctam eam regionem regno incoluit.
Sunt autem provinciae Graeciae septem: quarum prima ab occidente Dalmatia,
inde Epirus, inde Hellas, inde Thessalia, inde Macedonia, inde Achaia, et
duae in mari, Creta et Cyclades.
ISIDORUS, Etymologiae, XIV, 4, 7 sq. (PL 82, 505)
Justin:
M.Justinus' epitome of Pompeius Trogus' Universal History 7.1
Macedonia was formerly called Emathia,... Caranus also came to Emathia with
a large band of Greeks, being instructed by an oracle to seek a home in
Macedonia.
IV. In the same year a concussion of the earth happened between the islands
Thera and Therasia, in the midst of the sea at an equal distance from either
shore, where, to the astonishment of those that were sailing past, an island
rose suddenly from the deep, the water being at the same time hot. In Asia
too, on the same day, the same earthquake shattered Rhodes,and many other
cities, with a terrible ruin; some it swallowed up entire. As all men were
alarmed at this prodigy, the soothsayers predicted that "the rising power of
the Romans would swallow up the ancient empire of the Greeks and
Macedonians."
Livy
[LIVY, HISTORY OF ROME BOOK 31.7, "ROME AND MACEDON"]
"As for the Argives, apart from their belief that the Macedonian kings were
descended from them, most of them were also attached to Philip by individual
ties of hospitality and close personal friendships."
32.22
Odd, that if the Macedonian Kings spread the 'myth' of their 'supposed'
descent from Argos, why did the Argives also go along with it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pausanias
Attica
"but we know of no Greek before Pyrros who fought against Rome."
Molossians not Macedonians but they too are often victims of misinformation.
1.11
"So Pyrros was the first to cross over against Rome from mainland Greece,
and even so he went over only because he was called in by Tarentum"
ditto
1.12
"Seleukos had both Greeks and barbarians in his army"
Macedonians included with the Greeks...
1.16
"The statues by the river are Mnesimache, and the dedication of a boy
cutting his hair to Kephisos. This has been a tradition of all Greeks from
ancient times."
If you recall Aelians description of Alexander's grief at Hephaestion's
death..
1.37
Achaia
"but in later wars of the whole Greek community the Achaians took their
stand against Philip of Macedon,"
7.6
"The Sibyl had made an inspired prophecy about the power of Macedonia, which
was acquired under one Philip and destroyed under the other; this is how it
goes:
Macedonia whose kings are from Argos,
Your good and your bad come in the reign of Philip.
One shall create lords for cities and for peoples:
The other shall utterly destroy your glory
Beaten down by eastern and western men.
7.8
"But Philip dedicated no trophy, either here or for any other of his Greek
and barbarian victories: raising trophies was not in Macedonian tradition.
The Macedonians say their King Karanos won a battle against a neighbouring
ruler called Kisseus and raised a trophy according to the custom of Argos,
but a lion from Mount Olympos overturned it and utterly destroyed it.
Karanos understood that it was bad policy to begin a perpetual enmity with
the barbarian neighbours;"
9.40
Lakonia
"Anaximenes then approached Alexander, and Alexander who knew what he had
come for swore by all the gods of Greece to do the opposite to whatever he
asked."
6.18
Pliny the Elder:
Such, at all events, were the opinions generally entertained in the reign of
Alexander the Great, at a time when Greece was at the height of her glory,
and the most powerful country in the world.
Why would Greece be at the height of her glory if the non-Greek Macedonians
were ruling...? Anyone?
Plutarch
For my part I believe none would. For I see that even common sword-players,
if they are not utter brutes and savages, but Greek born, when they are to
enter the list, though there be many and very costly dishes set before them,
yet take more content in employing their time in commanding their poor wives
to some of their friends, yea, and in conferring freedom on their slaves,
than in gratifying their stomachs. But should the pleasures of the body be
allowed to have some extraordinary matter in them, this would yet be common
to men of action and business.
For they can eat good meat, and red wine drink,
(See "Iliad," v. 341.)5
aye, and entertain themselves with their friends, and perhaps with a greater
relish too, after their engagements and hard services,-- as did Alexander
and Agesilaus, and (by Jove) Phocion and Epaminondas too,--than these
gentlemen who anoint themselves by the fireside, and are gingerly rocked
about the streets in sedans.
A moral essay by Plutarch that draws comparison between noble Greeks such as
Alexander and Epaminondas...
-Essays, That it is not possible to live pleasurably according to the
Doctrine of Epicurus
Sibylline Prophecies:
Book III
And then shall Hellenes2, proud and impure,
Then shall a Macedonian nation rule,210 Great, shrewd, who as a fearful
cloud of war
Shall come to mortals. But the God of heaven
Shall utterly destroy them from the depth.
And then shall be another kingdom3, white
And many-headed, from the western sea,
215 Which shall rule much land, and shake many
men,
And to all kings bring terror afterwards,
And out of many cities shall destroy
Much gold and silver; but in the vast earth
There will again be gold, and silver too,
220 And ornament. And they will oppress mortals;
And to those men shall great disaster be,
When they begin unrighteous arrogance.
And forthwith in them there shall be a force
Of wickedness, male will consort with male,
225 And children they will place in dens of shame;
And in those days there shall be among men
A great affliction, and it shall disturb
All things, and break all things, and fill all things
With evils by a shameful covetousness,
230 And by ill-gotten wealth in many lands,
But most of all in Macedonia.
And it shall stir up hatred, and all guile
Shalt be with them even to the seventh kingdom4,
Of which a king of Egypt shall be king
235 Who shall be a descendant from the Greeks.
And then the nation of the mighty God
Shall be again strong5 and they shall be guides
Of life to all men. But why did God place
This also in my mind to tell: what first,
240 And what next, and what evil last shall be
On all men? Which of these shall take the lead?
First6 on the Titans will God visit evil.
For they shall pay to mighty Chronos's sons
The penal satisfaction, since they bound
245 Both Cronos and the mother dearly loved.
Again shall there be tyrants for the Greeks
And fierce kings overweening and impure,
Adulterous and altogether bad;
And for men shall be no more rest from war.
250 And the dread Phrygians shall perish all,
And unto Troy shall evil come that day.
And to the Persians and Assyrians
Evil shall straightaway come, and to all Egypt
And Libya and the Ethiopians,
255 And to the Carians and Pamphylians-
765 The seventh of Egypt, shall rule his own land,
Reckoned from the dominion of the Greeks,
Which countless Macedonian men shall rule;And there shall come from Asia a
great king2,
A fiery eagle, who with foot and horse
770 Shall cover all the land, cut up all things,
And fill all things with evils; he will cast
The Egyptian kingdom down; and taking off
All its possessions carry them away
Over the spacious surface of the sea.
The Sibylline Prophecies were a series of early Christian writings to
legitimize Christianity. Presented as proof of how even the ancient oracles
predicted the coming of Christianity they in fact are written after the
events happened. Nonetheless, they do contain historical events...
Suda, The
Karanos, Caranus
One of the Heraclids,[1] he gathered an army from Greece and went into
Macedonia, which at that time was an obscure place. He ruled there and
handed down the rule so that it proceeded in succession all the way down to
Philip.[2]
The Suda was a Byzantine 'Encyclopedia' and this is the entry for Karanos
the founder of the Macedonian Kingdom..
Tacitus:
"Meanwhile with Parthian approval Tiridates III occupied Macedonian towns,
including Macedonian foundations (Nicephorium, Anthemusias, and others with
Greek names) and some places of Parthian origin..."
It seems like the Macedonians were founding cities with 'Greek names'.
Strange for a non-Greek people...
Tacitus, The Annals of Imperial Rome, 8
Velleius Paterculus:
Book I
In this period, sixty-five years before the founding of Rome, Carthage was
established by the Tyrian Elissa, by some authors called Dido. About this
time also Caranus, a man of royal race, eleventh in descent from Hercules,
set out from Argos and seized the kingship of Macedonia. From him Alexander
the Great was descended in the seventeenth generation, and could boast that,
on his mother's side, he was descended from Achilles, and, on his father's
side, from Hercules.
Another Roman historian and another validation of the founding of
Macedonia...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polybius
"This is a sworn treaty made between us, Hannibal.. and Xenophanes the
Athenian... in the presence of all the gods who possess Macedonia and the
rest of Greece". The Histories of Polybius, VII, 9, 4 (Loeb, W. R. Paton)
"How highly should we honour the Macedonians, who for the greater part of
their lives never cease from fighting with the barbarians for the sake of
the security of Greece? For who is not aware that Greece would have
constantly stood in the greater danger, had we not been fenced by the
Macedonians and the honorable ambition of their kings?" The Histories of
Polybius, IX, 35, 2 (Loeb, W.R. Paton)
an oftenly forgotten quote from Polybios
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Plb.+9.37
who were your allies on the former occasion when you invited this people to
join you? Were they not all the Greeks? But with whom are you now united, or
to what kind of federation are you now inviting this people? Is it not to
one with the foreigner? A mighty similarity exists, no doubt, in your minds,
and no diversity at all! Then you were contending for glory and supremacy
with Achaeans and Macedonians, men of kindred blood with yourselves, and
with Philip their leader; now a war of slavery is threatening Greece against
men of another race
for another english translation of the same quote click here
(http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Polybius/9*.html)
the original text calls the Achaians (a well known Hellenic people)
"?????????" with the Macedonians
"????????" means in Greek "belonging to the same race"
("??????"=same "????"=race)
also regarding this quote if you read a bit further more references are to
be found
"This is a sworn treaty made between us, Hannibal.. and Xenophanes the
Athenian... in the presence of all the gods who possess Macedonia and the
rest of Greece". The Histories of Polybius, VII, 9, 4
supported by King Philip and the Macedonians, and all other Greeks in
alliance with them
0n their parts also King Philip and the Macedonians, and such other Greeks
as are his allies
..and this time its not about including Macedonia (as a region) to the whole
of Greece but the Macedonians (as people) are included in the Greek people
..the key phrase here is "the other/the rest Greeks" which puts the
Macedonians together with the Greeks
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Plb.+7.9
Herodotus
"The Peloponnesians that were with the fleet were... the Lacedaemonians ...
the Corinthians... the Sicyonians... the Epidaurians... the Troezenians...
the people of Hermione there; all these, except the people of Hermione, were
of Dorian and Macedonian stock and had last come from Erineus and Pindus and
the Dryopian region". Herodotus VIII, 43 (Loeb. A.D. Godley).
"For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the land of Phthiotis, then
in the time of Dorus son of Helen the country called Histiaean, under Ossa
and Olympus; driven by the Cadmeans from this Histiaean country it settled
about Pindus in the parts called Macedonian; thence again it migrated to
Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into Peloponnesus, where it took the
name of Dorian". Herodotus I, 56, 3 (Loeb, A.D. Godley).
"Tell your king who sent you how his Greek viceroy of Macedonia has received
you hospitably... " Herodotus V, 20, 4 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say,
I myself chance to know" Herodotus V, 22, 1 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
"But Alexander proving himself to be an Argive, he was judged to be a Greek.
So he contended in the furlong race and an a dead heat for the first place".
Herodotus V 22,2 - Loeb. A. d. Godley).
------------------
Post by Istor the MacedonianEnough for now, I am sure I will recieve nasty comments:)
Maybe but not from me.
