A Website on the History of Jews of Greece and a Macedonian Ruler

A website on the history of Jews of Greece bringing us the interesting
information that a Macedonia ruler of Egypt, Ptolemy, ordered the

................................
How about that translation?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/415923/message/1175463099

n***@gmail.com

2008-08-23 03:55:11 UTC

A website on the history of Jews of Greece bringing us the interesting
information that a Macedonia ruler of Egypt, Ptolemy, ordered the

................................
How about that translation?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/415923/message/1175463099

To whom it may concern,
The Macedonian people did not really conquer Greece; they simply
proved superior to the Athenians and the Thebans in a civil struggle
for control and established a Macedonian hegemony. It was a civil war
that ended up in the abandonment of the old city state form of
government and provided, although by force, the foundations of a
confederate state under Macedonian control.
Philip did not learn Greek in captivity while in Thebes neither did
Alexander learned Greek from Aristotle. They both knew and spoke Greek
and did not need to re-learn it from the Southern Greeks. What philip
and especially Alexander got a lot of training and education including
new ideas and some exposure to the Attic(Athenian) culture and perhaps
an exposure to the Attic(Athenian) dialect that so instrumental in
establishing later the KOENE language so that there would be a
confederately united Hellenic nation with one language for all.
The troops from Greece constituted a small number in comparison to
whole Macedonian Greek army and there was was no communication problem
for the army because they all spoke Greek, perhaps some Greek dialect
but it was understandable to all the troops with the exception of the
soldiers that recruited from the north who might have needed some
training in the Greek language. If there was a Macedonian language
different from Greek why would Alexander chose a foreign language for
his army that consisted mainly of Macedonians? The answer is very
simple because there never was any mention of another language spoken
in the army other than the Greek language.
Besides which general of the stature of Alexander would have
abandoned his own language, if he had one other than Greek, just for
the simple but stupid reason that it would have been easier to train
troops in <foreign> Greek language than that of his own land.
Moreover, why would foreign troops be easier to train in Greek than
Alexander's own say non Greek language. People did not speak Greek in
Asia before Alexander but learned to do it afterwards because
Alexander and his Generals promoted the only language he knew and ever
learned and practiced in his homeland and elsewhere. I believe and
hope that this information would be looked upon seriously and thought
as the truth and nothing but the truth for everybody concerned and
especially for some who would like to speculate for convenient or
fraudulant answers. Mackman.

Panayiotis

2008-08-23 07:14:34 UTC

======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================

Spirit of Truth

2008-08-23 13:43:59 UTC

"++" <***@spambot.com> wrote in message news:***@rcn.net...
The translation into the commercial and official language of the
Macedonians, ie. koine Greek, is still used today. Just think, if
Philip of Macedonia had not learned Greek and if he had not hired such a
great tutor, Aristotle, for his son, Alexander, the utility of Greek as
a lingua franca might never have been effectuated.

................................................................................................................
................................................................................................................

DUH

What a dumb post, Gail.

Alexander 1 recognized as a Greek at the Olympics way before
Philip 11 would not have been recognized as a Greek if the
Macedonians didn't speak Greek!

Please _start_ posting sensible things.

Spirit of Truth

stephan.nikolov

2008-08-23 13:50:25 UTC

A website on the history of Jews of Greece bringing us the interesting
information that a Macedonia ruler of Egypt, Ptolemy, ordered the

................................
How about that translation?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/415923/message/1175463099

The translation into the commercial and official language of the
Macedonians, ie. koine Greek, is still used today. Just think, if
Philip of Macedonia had not learned Greek and if he had not hired such a
great tutor, Aristotle, for his son, Alexander, the utility of Greek as
a lingua franca might never have been effectuated. It served them well,
as after they conquered Greece, they had a ready lanaguage to
communicate with those troops from Greece. If Macedonian had been
chosen, it would have been difficult to train people conquered in it.

Wow!!! A Greek dialect was in use in the Macedonian royal house well before
Phillip.
The usage of Greek as _the_ language of the Macedonian royal court dates
back at least to Alexander I.
So, Phillip II has learned Greek from his very early childhood.
By the way, Greek as a lingua fanca is attested well before Alexander III
and even before his father actually.
A glance at Thracian history would demontrate it to you if you were
interested. But you are not, right?

2008-08-23 14:03:00 UTC

A website on the history of Jews of Greece bringing us the interesting
information that a Macedonia ruler of Egypt, Ptolemy, ordered the

................................
How about that translation?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/415923/message/1175463099

The translation into the commercial and official language of the
Macedonians, ie. koine Greek, is still used today. Just think, if
Philip of Macedonia had not learned Greek and if he had not hired such a
great tutor, Aristotle, for his son, Alexander, the utility of Greek as
a lingua franca might never have been effectuated. It served them well,
as after they conquered Greece, they had a ready lanaguage to
communicate with those troops from Greece. If Macedonian had been
chosen, it would have been difficult to train people conquered in it.
Wow!!! A Greek dialect was in use in the Macedonian royal house well
before Phillip.
The usage of Greek as _the_ language of the Macedonian royal court
dates back at least to Alexander I.
So, Phillip II has learned Greek from his very early childhood.
By the way, Greek as a lingua fanca is attested well before Alexander
III and even before his father actually.
A glance at Thracian history would demontrate it to you if you were
interested. But you are not, right?

In terms of Alexander's Empire, the tutoring by Aristotle has primary
importance. The use of Greek as a lingua franca predates Philip, of
course, who had the choice to use his own language as well. Note that
Greek as a lingua franca gets mostly dsplaced by Latin in Macedonia
within a short period

Istor the Macedonian

2008-08-23 21:16:41 UTC

....................................

Post by ++
In terms of Alexander's Empire, the tutoring by Aristotle has primary
importance. The use of Greek as a lingua franca predates Philip, of
course, who had the choice to use his own language as well. Note that

Aristotle taught Alexander no language. This job wasn't of his field.
he taught Alexander politics, fighting, mathematics, economic, .....
Macedonians spoke Greek because the inventors of Macedonia were
Greeks.

Post by ++
Greek as a lingua franca gets mostly dsplaced by Latin in Macedonia
within a short period

What? When? How short? Even during Roman occupation Macedonians wrote
Greek inscriptions in their coins:
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?results=100&search=prwths
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?results=100&search=qessalonik

Spirit of Truth

2008-08-23 22:37:33 UTC

Note that Greek as a lingua franca gets mostly dsplaced by Latin in
Macedonia within a short period

Another flaming lie from Gail Schneider!!! She is talking about the Fyrom
area which isn't real Macedonia!

Real Macedonia always spoke Greek the Macedonians were Greeks.
Even the Holy Bible confirms it...The Word Of God:

For fair use only

Chapter 16
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was
there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and
believed; but his father was a Greek:
16:2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and
Iconium.
16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him
because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his
father was a Greek.
16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees
for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at
Jerusalem.
16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in
number daily.
16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia,
and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
16:7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but
the Spirit suffered them not.
16:8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of
Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go
into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to
preach the gospel unto them.
16:11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to
Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;
16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of
Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where
prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which
resorted thither.
16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of
Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that
she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying,
If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and
abide there. And she constrained us.
16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed
with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by
soothsaying:
16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the
servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation.
16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said
to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of
her. And he came out the same hour.
16:19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they
caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,
16:20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do
exceedingly trouble our city,
16:21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to
observe, being Romans.
16:22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates
rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them.
16:23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into pri
son, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
16:24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison,
and made their feet fast in the stocks.
16:25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and
the prisoners heard them.
16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of
the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every
one's bands were loosed.
16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the
prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself,
supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we
are all here.
16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and
fell down before Paul and Silas,
16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be
saved, and thy house.
16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in
his house.
16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes;
and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them,
and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
16:35 And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let
those men go.
16:36 And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates
have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.
16:37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being
Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily?
nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
16:38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they
feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
16:39 And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired
them to depart out of the city.
16:40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia:
and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
Chapter 17
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to
Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days
reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen
again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
17:4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of
the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them
certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all
the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring
them out to the people.
17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto
the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down
are come hither also;
17:7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of
Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
17:8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they
heard these things.
17:9 And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let
them go.
17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto
Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they
received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures
daily, whether those things were so.
17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were
Greeks, and of men, not a few.

from: Spirit Of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!

Spirit of Truth

2008-08-24 05:56:22 UTC

Note that Greek as a lingua franca gets mostly dsplaced by Latin in
Macedonia within a short period

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2007/03/15/modern-historians-about-macedonia-theodor-mommsen/

Spirit

Istor the Macedonian

2008-08-23 20:57:48 UTC

A website on the history of Jews of Greece bringing us the interesting
information that a Macedonia ruler of Egypt, Ptolemy, ordered the

................................
How about that translation?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/415923/message/1175463099

The translation into the commercial and official language of the
Macedonians, ie. koine Greek, is still used today. Just think, if
Philip of Macedonia had not learned Greek and if he had not hired such a
great tutor, Aristotle, for his son, Alexander, the utility of Greek as
a lingua franca might never have been effectuated. It served them well,
as after they conquered Greece, they had a ready lanaguage to
communicate with those troops from Greece. If Macedonian had been
chosen, it would have been difficult to train people conquered in it.
Wow!!! A Greek dialect was in use in the Macedonian royal house well before
Phillip.
The usage of Greek as _the_ language of the Macedonian royal court dates
back at least to Alexander I.
So, Phillip II has learned Greek from his very early childhood.

And simple people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pella_curse_tablet

Post by ++
By the way, Greek as a lingua fanca is attested well before Alexander III
and even before his father actually.
A glance at Thracian history would demontrate it to you if you were
interested. But you are not, right?

Wrong. Greek was lingua franca of Eastern Mediteranean after and
because of Macedonian campaign. That's why Greek Language had no
serious pervasion to the Western Mediterranean.

Thracians were who lived close or amongst Greeks (Mygdonians, ...)
adopted Greek Language very early (400 BC?)

stephan.nikolov

2008-08-24 18:01:51 UTC

Post by stephan.nikolov
Wow!!! A Greek dialect was in use in the Macedonian royal house well before
Phillip.
The usage of Greek as _the_ language of the Macedonian royal court dates
back at least to Alexander I.
So, Phillip II has learned Greek from his very early childhood.

And simple people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pella_curse_tablet

Post by stephan.nikolov
By the way, Greek as a lingua fanca is attested well before Alexander III
and even before his father actually.
A glance at Thracian history would demontrate it to you if you were
interested. But you are not, right?
Wrong. Greek was lingua franca of Eastern Mediteranean after and
because of Macedonian campaign. That's why Greek Language had no
serious pervasion to the Western Mediterranean.

In the near east, perhaps that is so

Post by stephan.nikolov
Thracians were who lived close or amongst Greeks (Mygdonians, ...)
adopted Greek Language very early (400 BC?)

Not only they. The Greek became the language for _written_ comunication
of various Thracian tribes between 430 - 350 BC.

Istor the Macedonian

2008-08-25 18:47:08 UTC

.................................................

Post by stephan.nikolov

Post by Istor the Macedonian
Thracians were who lived close or amongst Greeks (Mygdonians, ...)
adopted Greek Language very early (400 BC?)

Not only they. The Greek became the language for _written_ comunication
of various Thracian tribes between 430 - 350 BC.

Arguments?

stephan.nikolov

2008-08-25 21:16:13 UTC

.................................................

Post by stephan.nikolov

Post by Istor the Macedonian
Thracians were who lived close or amongst Greeks (Mygdonians, ...)
adopted Greek Language very early (400 BC?)

Not only they. The Greek became the language for _written_ comunication
of various Thracian tribes between 430 - 350 BC.

Arguments?

The Odrisae ruler Kotis I received Athenian citizenship
and his daughter married Iphicrates (?) of Athens(383 BC).
Already his predecessor's (Chrybeselmes) votive gifts with Greek
inscriptions were sent to Delphoi.
Perhaps if you read again Xenophon's Anabasis would think on the issue what
language were they talking in the court of Citalk. (before 424 BC).
One of his successors, Seutes, actively participated in the conclusion of
the Pelopponesse war.
Various prescious objects from that time have Greek inscriptions that
suggest that their Thracian owners knew the language.

Please, note that using the Greek language does not mean hellenisation of
the Thracians.

Istor the Macedonian

2008-08-25 22:18:00 UTC

Please, note that using the Greek language does not mean hellenisation of
the Thracians.

Ok.

This does not mean that Greek was "lingua franca" before Macedonian
campaign, right?

stephan.nikolov

2008-08-26 07:13:23 UTC

Please, note that using the Greek language does not mean hellenisation of
the Thracians.
Ok.
This does not mean that Greek was "lingua franca" before Macedonian
campaign, right?

Well, I do not know what do you mean by "lingua franca" - I adhere to a
definition quite close to that in wiki:
"A lingua franca (Italian literally meaning Frankish language, see etymology
under Sabir and Italian below) is any language widely used beyond the
population of its native speakers. The de facto status of lingua franca is
usually "awarded" by the masses to the language of the most influential
nation(s) of the time. Any given language normally becomes a lingua franca
primarily by being used for international commerce, but can be accepted in
other cultural exchanges, especially diplomacy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca
See, I am not to deny Alexander's campaign contrubution to the spread of the
Greek language. What I am saying is that Greek was already establishing
itself as the language for trade, diplomacy and written communication for
the period,
so it was becomming the lingua franca for the Balkans. It was the
Pelopponessan war that greatly contributed to the fast spread of knowledge
of Greek for it gave the chance for fast accumulation of wealth for the
Odrissai and intensified their relations with the Hellenic world. It is
quite important that the silver and golden dishes used by the Thracian
aristocrats
had Greek inscriptions (Thracian language was never intended to be written
down).

Istor the Macedonian

2008-08-26 14:10:58 UTC

Post by stephan.nikolov

Post by Istor the Macedonian
This does not mean that Greek was "lingua franca" before Macedonian
campaign, right?

Well, I do not know what do you mean by "lingua franca" - I adhere to a
"A lingua franca (Italian literally meaning Frankish language, see etymology
under Sabir and Italian below) is any language widely used beyond the
population of its native speakers. The de facto status of lingua franca is
usually "awarded" by the masses to the language of the most influential
nation(s) of the time. Any given language normally becomes a lingua franca
primarily by being used for international commerce, but can be accepted in
other cultural exchanges, especially diplomacy."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca
See, I am not to deny Alexander's campaign contrubution to the spread of the
Greek language. What I am saying is that Greek was already establishing

stephan.nikolov

2008-08-26 19:23:16 UTC

Post by Istor the Macedonian
.....................

Post by Istor the Macedonian
This does not mean that Greek was "lingua franca" before Macedonian
campaign, right?

Well, I do not know what do you mean by "lingua franca" - I adhere to a
"A lingua franca (Italian literally meaning Frankish language, see etymology
under Sabir and Italian below) is any language widely used beyond the
population of its native speakers. The de facto status of lingua franca is
usually "awarded" by the masses to the language of the most influential
nation(s) of the time. Any given language normally becomes a lingua franca
primarily by being used for international commerce, but can be accepted in
other cultural exchanges, especially
diplomacy."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca
See, I am not to deny Alexander's campaign contrubution to the spread of the
Greek language. What I am saying is that Greek was already establishing

.........................................

Ok.

The number of peoples that Greek was spoken by (Greeks and Thracians),
was too small, to be called "lingua franca", don't you think? I think
that lingua franca means that whenever I go for trade I 'll find
people to speak to by using that language. This was possible only
after and because of Macedonian campaign.

Well, this should have been the case with the Odrissai Thracians after
Sitalces (third quarter of 5 c. BC) who was the first Thracian ruler
to put Greek inscriptions on his coins, a trend followed by his successors
in the 4th c. BC. You have intensified trade relations with the Greek world,
you have quite e few attested people of mixed origins - Thucidites among
them, if i recall it right.
I said, I have only been specifying that in the Balkans Greek became lingua
franca
well before Alexander and gave the case with the Thracians. I do not know
how was it with the Illyrians but I would expect the picture
had been similar. You already correctly pointed ot that the Greek colonies
were powerful source of Greek learning
The period between the Persian wars and Alexander have witnessed quite a few
Greek mercenaries, advisors, craftsmen and traders operating in the area and
cultural fluctuation with the Hellenic world, especially during Athens
haegemony.
Further, I am pretty sure Greek was used in trade in Asia Minor under the
Persians because of the Ionian cities there. Greek emerged a prestigious
language from the Persian wars. Another result was the renewal of trade and
cultural relations with Phoenicia, Lydia, Egypt, and other regions of the
Ahaemenid empire.
All these were preconditions for the triumph of the Greek language following
Alexander's campaigns ....

Istor the Macedonian

2008-08-23 20:50:02 UTC